Netherlands online get-together

Start

2021-11-17 20:00 CET

End

22:00 ?

Location

On FSFE conference server (send email to Nico Rikken to get login details)

Description

Online get-together of Netherlands

Attendance

• André
• Nico
• Justin
• Rijk
• Sam
• Tobias
• Daniel

Discussion points / Agenda + minutes

Agenda

• Introductions
• Announcements
• Writing to forming parties about the importance of Free Software
• Education freedom
• Covid QR app

Minutes

• Introductions
• Announcements
• Meeting physically (André)
  • restaurants will close at 20:00, so reservation for 19:00 has closed
  • Current plan is a new poll, Saturday, extended lunch or diner, depending on the time
  • New poll, not this Saturday
• Libresoc project (Tobias)

  • https://libre-soc.org/

    • Combined CPU, GPU and VPU
    • Initially Libre Risc-5
  • Memory management unit (MMU) is still missing

  • https://github.com/antonblanchard/microwatt a softcore (software virtual chip)

  • POWER Instruction Set Architecture (ISA) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_ISA

  • NXP has stopped developing new POWER cores, so newest is something like POWER 7.
  • Designing hardware (not firmware)

  • In Python a Domain Specific Language, called Nmigen simulator https://github.com/m-labs/nmigen

  • Then testing on a FPGA configurable hardware, lattice ECP5 FPGA to testing

  • Then when the chip is developed and tested, it could be produced. Toolchain: http://coriolis.lip6.fr/

  • At the moment focussed on a router board
  • SVP64 (hardware for loop) to have many parallel compute units, SoC will be similar to a graphics card.
  • As the MMU is still missing, Linux is not (yet) booting

  • Long-term goal: something booting like POWER 9 with less power usage, compared to current offering of Raptor Computing https://www.raptorcs.com/ Also typical

  • Open POWER EULA allows anybody to implement as long as you remain compliant, similar to GPLv3 but for chip architecture.
  • LGPLv3 for hdl code
  • Team
    • Jacob: full time, graphics. Has begon on Vulcan driver - Kazan
    • Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton: full time (has worked on Samba project in the past, and EOMA68)
    • Tobias: part-time
  • Finance: NLnet foundation 400k euro

    • NGI funding announcement https://www.ngi.eu/news/2021/10/28/ngi-assure-announces-open-calls-finalists-for-reinforcing-blockchain-in-the-eu/

    • Purism
      • With the current hardware they are unable to meet the goal of offering user freedom. So they also have to move away from ARM or Intel.
        • Intel has Mangement Engine (ME), outdated instruction set architecture (ISA) and vulnerable to bugs like Spectre and Meltdown.
    • and others

  • In 2019 already project Libre Silicon, working on manufactoring https://libresilicon.com/ by Sam Zeloof http://sam.zeloof.xyz/

  • Seems a very strategic project for the EU
  • Coriolis is developed in a French university, and only European free silicon
  • There is also a Swiss-Chinese collaboration, written in German, Chinese (Hong Kong and Taiwan) and French.
  • Much more funding is needed to move it forward

  • Project was started when Luke was evaluating Chinese-made SoCs like Allwinner A20. Doesn't come with source code, so cannot be verified

    • Allwinner has violated the GPL. Tom Cubie and 'Bunnie' has been trying to get Allwinner into compliance
  • Initially project was RISC, but switched to POWER for multiple reasons
    • POWER has large development base, RISC-V is very much academic at the moment
    • You are not allowed to extend RISC-V, seems a conflict of interest by associated companies
    • RISC-V development occurs on a closed mailinglist
    • RISC-V is using proprietary microcode
    • Sifive was called out on not releasing everything, but they cannot release everything. They release their CPU cores, not PowerVR.
    • 2 Instruction Set Architectures (ISAs) makes it difficult, with different ISAs for CPU and GPU.
      • Plan is to develop our own GPU based on the POWER architecture.
      • Talos workstation currently uses software rendering for graphics and needs a GPU for rendering, but Raptor Engineering is interested in a free alternative.

    • PowerVR (not be confused with OpenPOWER) is a GPU where reverse-engineering the ISA has never been attempted. RaspberryPi has a different one, VideoCore4. Both ISAs are proprietary.

  • Microsoft has not released code for ISA under a free license.
  • MMU, can be developed if there is funding. Licensing an existing MMU design saves time but becomes costly.
    • For example not license HDMI trademark, as that requires implementing DRM, and there is not intention to. UlX3S renamed HDMI to GPDI (General Purpose Differential Interface)
    • Microwatt already has a MMU so that is being ported. It has a different design, so it requires glue code to get it in the data path.
  • Mostly using Python for developing it. System C no longer used in practice. Python creates C data structures used for simulations. Python generates Verilog language, that generates C++-code to run the simulations.
  • Project with a steep learning curve. Took Tobias 2 years to get in on the project.
  • There is currently a working prototype
    • Simple memory interface
    • Exceptions were not working
  • Now coming up with a new iteration

  • OpenPower is the right way for developing GPUs, but it will take years.

  • Risc-V is still being developed.
  • How to support the project?

    • Test-driven development https://git.libre-soc.org/?p=soc.git;a=summary first write the test, than the code.

    • Tape-out is quite cheap, in 1000s euro, not as expensive as it used to be.
  • Learning this

    • THM.de https://homepages.thm.de/~hg53/

  • Compared to current NXP POWER chips
    • Some chips have deciated instructions and coprocessors, which increases cost due to licensing.
  • Learning from old architecture CDC6600 through retired IBM architect

  • Suggestion Sam about mega65 https://mega65.org/

    • For old game consoles common to port it over to a FPGA, but computing power is limited

  • Router like projects https://www.turris.com/en/omnia/overview/ and Freedombox https://www.freedombox.org/ Syncloud https://syncloud.org/

  • Relation with FSFE-NL? NLnet.
• Writing to political parties forming government about the importance of Free Software
  • Sent it out
  • Press statement will come out tomorrow
    • Is computable in there?
  • Sam idea to sent a letter to the minister of digital affairs
    • No deadline, just reaching out
    • Letter by Fani
• Education freedom
  • New meeting will be held
  • Nico probably won't attend, due to other obligations
  • Rijk gets the impression
• Daniel court case
  • Date: 11 januari 2021 9:40 Groningen
• Daniel position paper about PGP
  • 2 groups of dentists

    • KNMP used Zorgmail https://zorgmail.nl/ in the past for secure communication

    • Other group used Zivver https://www.zivver.com/nl/

    • Both make it difficult to communicate with people outside of the secure email platfom as it requires double verification.
  • How can this be serviced by IT companies. Perhaps public key server for sharing keys among dentists.
  • Idea to send it in in near future, email to Nico

  • Making it easier, like PEP https://www.pep.security/en/

    • There is also https://autocrypt.org/ with support in different clients https://autocrypt.org/dev-status.html

    • PEP can support existing keys https://www.pep.security/docs/en/general_information.html#use-existing-private-key

    • Specific article about benefits of PEP https://www.pep.security/en/blog/how-painful-is-encryption-key-management-at-your-company/

• MNT Reform laptop

  • https://mntmn.com/media/reform_md/2020-05-08-the-much-more-personal-computer.html

  • Video making fun of Apple https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsvOdiGrnnk

  • Interest to consider related organization like consumer organizations and ecological organization (against e-waste)
  • Which related organizations in NL?

    • Ook https://electronicswatch.org/en/

  • Specs https://shop.mntmn.com/products/mnt-reform

    • NXP i.MX8MQ with 64-bit ARM Cortex-A53 cores (upgradeable)

    • Looks on par with pinebook pro https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/

  • Agenda point next time

  • Discussion on PayPal: is located in Luxemburg

    • https://clinic.nl/

    • https://cnpd.public.lu/en.html

    • https://www.abbl.lu/topic/general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/

  • Apple M1 chips is receiving attention from free software developers to get Linux running on it https://asahilinux.org/

• Kiesraad (Daniel)
  • Received feedback, but will have to look into it

Not discussed, perhaps next meeting

• ...

Etherpad: https://pads.domainepublic.net/p/get-together-2021-11-17

Previous meeting: Events/Netherlands/2021-10-20

Next meeting: Events/Netherlands/2021-12-15

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