Netherlands online get-together

Start

2025-03-19 20:00 CET

End

22:00 CET

Location

On Netherlands room on FSFE conference server

Description

Online get-together of Netherlands

NL: Onze online localgroup bijeenkomst. Deze is open voor iedereen en we schakelen naar het Engels als niet iedereen Nederlands begrijpt.
EN: Our online localgroup meeting. It is open for everybody, and we'll switch to English if not everybody understands Dutch.

Create a Markdown document on the Nextcloud server and share it here for similar functionality as an Etherpad.

Contribute to the agenda in advance or during the meeting on the dedicated notes document: https://share.fsfe.org/s/AspCK9rA7yXDJaF

This page will be updated with a link to the collaborative agenda.

Get-together 19 March 2025

Attendance

• Rijk
• Nico
• André
• Sam

Agenda + minutes

• Recent events https://fsfe.org/events/events.html

  • ⭐ 15 March NLLGG

• Upcoming events https://fsfe.org/events/events.html

  • ⭐ 24 March online Q&A Digital Markets Act https://fsfe.org/news/2025/news-20250306-01.nl.html

  • 8 April PMPC Symposium Essen (in German) https://fsfe.org/news/2025/news-20250310-01.nl.html

  • ⭐ 22 May NLUUG (incl. CEDO) https://nluug.nl/evenementen/nluug/voorjaarsconferentie-2025/

  • ⭐ 31 May - 1 June T-DOSE https://t-dose.org/2025/ Call for Proposals is open.

• FSFE updates https://fsfe.org/news/news.nl.html

  • Progress and promo Ada & Zangemann https://fsfe.org/news/2025/news-20250317-01.nl.html

• Ada Zangemann

  • We need a push on the translation, try reading it. To detect bad sentences https://git.fsfe.org/FSFE/ada-zangemann/src/branch/main/texts/Ada_Zangemann-nl.txt

• CEDO (education)

  • Open letter https://eerlijkdigitaalonderwijs.nl/open-brief-aan-raad-van-bestuur-radboud-universiteit/ and https://www.cs.ru.nl/~jhh/open-letter-big-tech.html

• Digital autonomy
  • More people are concerned about the issue of dependency.

  • Recent of Dasprive podcast about exit strategy https://dasprive.be/privacy/190-de-digitale-eid-icc-vreest-microsoft-en-misbruik-migrantendata/

  • Portugal backtracking on F35's https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/canada-en-portugal-twij-felen-over-aanschaf-f-35-wij-kunnen-de-geopolitie-ke-situatie-niet-negeren~bd227997/

  • Jurgen Gaeremyn analyzed software of municipalities. Interview in Bruzz https://www.bruzz.be/actua/column/data-analist-brussel-te-sterk-afhankelijk-van-microsoft-en-google-2025-03-19 More details on own website https://jurgen.gaeremyn.be/de-brusselse-afhankelijkheid/ Map https://jurgen.gaeremyn.be/map.html

    • Via nslookup you can lookup the mailserver behind an address.

  • Bert Hubert in podcast De Technoloog, explaining the issues and challenges plain language https://www.bnr.nl/podcast/de-technoloog/10568644/we-bouwen-ons-eigen-cloudbedrijf-in-tijden-van-trump About the red button.

  • Article in De Correspondent https://decorrespondent.nl/15937/europa-is-veel-te-afhankelijk-van-amerikaanse-tech-waar-blijft-het-nederlandse-crisisteam-dat-onze-eigen-cloud-optuigt/12193601-6940-02be-1767-d9101a44919b by Ot van Daalen.

  • GPT-NL https://gpt-nl.nl/

    • Idea to use public resources of Dutch municipalities

    • VNG (association of municipalities) recommends GPT-NL for open council info https://www.computable.nl/2025/03/17/vng-raadt-gemeenten-taalmodel-gpt-nl-aan/

  • Open council info https://zoek.openraadsinformatie.nl/ with more details on https://vng.nl/projecten/open-raadsinformatie

  • Like OpenTK by Bert Hubert https://berthub.eu/tkconv/ FOSS software that mimicks the database of national parliament and makes it accessible. More features and easier accessible then the official parlementary website. Podcast: https://www.bnr.nl/podcast/de-technoloog/10563430/hoe-je-met-een-kleine-server-de-hele-democratie-vooruit-helpt

    • Notubiz is one of the main proprietary systems used by municipalities.

      • In Almere an initiative to offer another view into the data, to reduce dependence on Notubiz https://raadvanalmere.nl/

  • Sittard Geleen, tranformation to FOSS, according to the Common Ground initiative. Podcast: https://www.bnr.nl/podcast/de-technoloog/10564451/open-source-is-niet-alleen-goedkoper-je-hebt-ook-meer-flexibiliteit and https://ibestuur.nl/artikel/een-stapsgewijze-transformatie-naar-opensourcesoftware/

  • Public debate about moving to IT to public cloud on 13th of March https://www.tweedekamer.nl/debat_en_vergadering/plenaire_vergaderingen/details/activiteit?id=2024A08625 and https://debatdirect.tweedekamer.nl/2025-03-13/economie/plenaire-zaal/debat-over-migraties-van-overheids-ict-naar-het-buitenland-18-30/onderwerp

  • Belgium: digital autonomy seems less of a topic.

    • Recent news about Microsoft promoting AI https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2025/03/19/microsoft-wil-belgen-met-ai-leren-werken-willen-600-000-mensen/

  • Argument that we are losing our skills as a society. In IT: people have become accustomed to services.

    • Link to FSFE campagins Ada & Zangemann and YH4F to encourage tinkering and get your hands dirty.

  • Signal is very popular. Groups moving over.

    • https://delta.chat

    • FOSDEM presentation https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5853-delta-chat-from-e-mail-messaging-to-peer-to-peer-realtime-networking/

    • Email has a lot of metadata, is that an issue?
    • Lots of data? 1,2kB messages 1:1 conversation 80kB in group chat.

  • Cloud Kootwijk https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/mailen-en-communiceren-zonder-musk-en-trump-cloud-kootwijk/ as analogy of creating our own infrastructure.

• NLLGG meeting last Saturday

  • Michiel Boelen, Lynis, inproving security of Systemd services. Command systemd-analyze security Packages are hesitant to restrict features. Lynis will work on a website to crowd-source improvements.

    • This issue is not specific to systemd. Was already the case in sysv-init.
    • Apparmor, firejail and flatpak can help.
      • Firejail: wrapper to restrict permissions.
  • Presentation to get away from big tech.

• Discussion about free software in municipalities. Based in 'Delftse principes' https://ibestuur.nl/artikel/delftse-principes-voor-digitale-soevereiniteit/

  • Suggestion to get policy (digitalisation strategy) into council for review and ability to amend it. New policy on digitalisation.

• Cars. Geolocation. Volkswagen data collection https://media.ccc.de/v/38c3-wir-wissen-wo-dein-auto-steht-volksdaten-von-volkswagen Tesla data collection including camera images.

• AI adoption

  • Book 'de tech coup' Marietje Schaake https://thetechcoup.com/ Strange that solutions need to have approvals before products can enter the market, but not for AI solutions.

    • Policy helps shape the solutions.

  • Belgium shops will start using AI to guess age of customers https://www.security.nl/posting/880296/200+Belgische+winkels+gaan+leeftijd+van+klanten+inschatten+met+AI

  • In health sector: should we use IT to support health professionals or use AI to replace them?
  • Undemocratic as only big players can create quality AI models. Comes at great technical difficulty and large cost.
    • How does this relate to beginnings of free software movement? At the rise of personal computer movement and thus democratization of computers. In that regard, chip fabrication is still undemocratic.
    • Difference of personal computer (individual, libertarian) vs collective resources incl. network. Personal computer has continued in personal smartphone, even though a lot of information is shared with connected services.

• Belgium proposes forced identification for social media https://www.security.nl/posting/880261/Belgische+minister+overweegt+identificatieplicht+voor+aanmaken+social+media-accounts

• Amsterdam will inform citizens about privacy of doorbell camera https://www.security.nl/posting/879639/Amsterdam+wijst+inwoners+op+privacyregels+voor+gebruik+deurbelcamera

  • How to start a conversation with neighbours?
  • Responsibility of installers.
• NOYB Schrems3 privacy?

  • No update https://www.security.nl/posting/880371/Staatssecretaris+Szab%C3%B3%3A+%27Doorgifte+van+EU-data+naar+VS+kan+vooralsnog+doorgaan%27

  • US oversight is gone, so how long before this fails?
  • Would direct contracts with companies still work?
  • CLOUD act allows US government insight in all companies

  • Old analysis https://www.privacycompany.eu/nl/blog/nieuwe-dpia-voor-de-rijksoverheid-en-universiteiten-op-microsoft-teams-onedrive-en-sharepoint-online and https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/documenten/publicaties/2022/02/21/public-dpia-teams-onedrive-sharepoint-and-azure-ad

• Business

  • DOSBA open source business association https://dosba.nl/

    • More countries are represented in APELL https://apell.info/members/

  • The value of open source

    • https://mastodon.nl/@juanan@infosec.exchange/114183068690241835

      • Supply-side (cost to recreate) is \~$4.15B, but demand-side (value to firms) is $8.8T. Shows massive cost savings & productivity boost from OSS.

      • If OSS didn't exist, firms would need to spend an estimated 3.5 times more on software than they currently do. OSS provides a massive, often invisible, productivity boost.
      • A tiny fraction of OSS developers create the vast majority of value. Only 5% of developers are responsible for over 96% of the demand-side value.
      • Firms should not just "free ride" on OSS but actively contribute to the ecosystem, as this is far cheaper than recreating the software themselves.

    • https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/24-038_51f8444f-502c-4139-8bf2-56eb4b65c58a.pdf

  • Open source should get a fair shot

Other meetings on the wiki overview page: Events/Netherlands

Category/FellowshipEvents Category/Netherlands