Netherlands online get-together

Start

2023-05-24 20:00 CEST

End

22:00 CEST

Location

On Netherlands room on FSFE conference server

Description

Online get-together of Netherlands

NL: Onze online localgroup bijeenkomst. Deze is open voor iedereen en we schakelen naar het Engels als niet iedereen Nederlands begrijpt.
EN: Our online localgroup meeting. It is open for everybody, and we'll switch to English if not everybody understands Dutch.

Create a Markdown document on the Nextcloud server and share it here for similar functionality as an Etherpad.

Contribute to the agenda in advance or during the meeting on the dedicated notes document: https://share.fsfe.org/s/3TEi7ZLTWn9XcwD */

Attendance

• André
• Nico
• Sam
• Klaas

Agenda + minutes

• Updates since last meeting ...

  • Some work on the wiki https://wiki.fsfe.org/LocalGroups/Nederland

  • BIPT (Belgium telecom regulator) reached out to us with questions on Italian fiber regulations. Lucas answered with details.

  • Router Freedom survey participation published https://fsfe.org/news/2023/news-20230515-02.html

  • Triodos app authentication lock-in, new conditions not allowing the app to be used on a rooted or jailbroken phone.

  • Vote for amendment to put a stop of big tech taking over the classroom https://www.security.nl/posting/796971/Tweede+Kamer+stemt+morgen+over+motie+om+%22big+tech+de+klas+uit%22+te+krijgen

• Recent events

  • 22-23 April 2023 T-Dose https://t-dose.org/2023/

  • 11 May NLUUG Spring Conference https://www.nluug.nl/index.html

  • 20 May NLLGG https://nllgg.nl/bijeenkomst

    • Triodos situation was discussed there.

  • 20 May 2023 Linux & Open Source Tilburg https://lostilburg.nl/

• Upcoming events

  • 27-28 June Public Spaces Conference: The Commons https://publicspaces.net/

  • 7-9 July ⭐ FSFE team@ summer meeting
  • 15-19 August ⭐ Chaoss Communication Camp

  • 16 September NLLGG? https://nllgg.nl/bijeenkomst

  • 16 September Free Software Day https://nllgg.nl/bijeenkomst

  • 20-22 October FSFE General Assembly Essen
  • 9-12 November ⭐ SFSCon
  • 27-30 December ⭐ Chaoss Communication Congress
• Triodos situation
  • Bank in transition, 2 websites, the old and the new internet banking.
  • New procedures requires the Triodos app (Android/Google).
  • Currently the 'identifier' is used to authenticate based on banking card and pincode.
  • Functionality is being removed from the website and is only available in the app.
    • Currently functionality like opening a savings account.
  • Letter
    • Letter with two main points, in progress
      • Open source the app
      • Keep supporting all features on the website
    • Letter can initially be private, but can be published depending on the outcome.
      • Also sign by FSFE-NL
    • Maybe ask for an alternative for identification to the app.
    • Mobile app as a requirement has a big impact
      • Banking customers not having a phone having to purchase one.
      • Customers having to purchase new phones every couple of years to maintain an up-to-date mobile OS.
  • Belgium situation

    • https://www.newb.coop/nl/ mentioned in the past that open source was difficult in a regulated industry.

  • Technical solutions
    • PSD2 regulation might make it theoretically possible to have a free software friendly solution that can connect to an existing bank account and handle transactions.

    • GNU Taler https://taler.net/en/ having derivative cryptographic money to be exchanged.

  • Dutch legal case from 2021

    • https://blog.iusmentis.com/2021/09/30/knab-mag-smartphone-app-voor-gebruik-bankrekening-verplichten/

    • Customer of Knab bank objected to the change of policy where an app was needed for authentication instead of the cardreader. Complaint was filed at financial complaint officier Kifid but was denied. https://blog.iusmentis.com/2021/09/30/knab-mag-smartphone-app-voor-gebruik-bankrekening-verplichten/

      • Agreement in private space is based on if it is reasonable.
      • Customer didn't motivate the objection to the app, specializing a general fear for privacy violation.
      • Judge considered the policy reasonable as customer did have other banks to go to as an alternative.
  • Router Freedom
    • In Belgium DSL is an issue
    • Freedom supporting router examples

      • https://wiki.vikings.net/WNDR3800_Router

      • https://www.turris.com/en/

    • Nico managed to get a working setup for KPN fiber, working right out of the box.
      • Kevin has documented relevant things in the past, maybe ask him too.
      • OpenWRT forum and Tweakers.net forum were helpful.
      • Would be great if Nico would write a blog with the experience.
    • Would be good if FSFE would direct to a source of information.
    • More and more connections are to be replaced by fiber.
  • Banking app
    • Situation on e/OS, being a fork of Lineage OS.
    • Issue with Triodos app, to confirm a phone. Requires Google services.
    • Digipas was disabled for consumers, only enabled for business. A call was needed to enable the Digipas for authentication.
      • Explained the situation in an email.
    • Klaas now running the Triodos app on the e/OS phone.
    • For payment a QR-code is needed.
    • Rooting is not needed for an alternative OS.

    • Multiple banking app discussions on e/OS forums https://community.e.foundation/search?q=banking

  • Flashing party
    • XDA developer forum for inspiration
    • Second hand phone for about 50 euro. Example: version of eOS runs on Moto G3
    • 19 januari 2023 there was an Upcycling Android train the trainers meeting

    • Dutch second hand vendor on Marktplaats of Pixel phones with GrapheneOS https://grapheneos.org/

      • GrapheneOS on Google Pixel phones https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices

      • Recent technical discussion https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/110368637416453404

    • Repair Café would be a good alternative location

      • Repair Café Oosterbeek https://www.repaircafe.org/cafe/repair-cafe-oosterbeek/

    • Linux phones
      • Mobian, Postmarket OS
      • Emulation with Waydroid
  • Position of big-tech
    • Research that Google is quite well trusted.
    • Google reading along with email
      • Can you imagine the postman reading all the email

    • Consumer protection class action lawsuit against Google https://www.claimservice.nl/googleclaim/

Other meetings on the wiki overview page: Events/Netherlands

Category/FellowshipEvents Category/Netherlands