Netherlands online get-together
- 2021-09-15 20:00 CEST
- 22:00 ?
- On FSFE conference server (send email to Nico Rikken to get login details)
Online get-together of Netherlands
- Jos W.
Discussion points / Agenda + minutes
- NLLGG 18 September won't be held
18 September 14:00 CEST "Public Money? Public Code!" (online) by Bonnie https://kielux.de/programm
- MBO education lesson on open source software
- Voiceover translation of upcoming FSFE video: again DIY or commercial?
- SMS auth phase-out of DigiD
- Questions via SP
- Blogpost by Nico
- Contact with other organizations
- Covid Check app on F-Droid status
- It is published without pictures
FSFE article: https://fsfe.org/news/2021/news-20210830-01.en.html
- Education freedom
Feedback from FSFE Zurich: https://wiki.fsfe.org/Events/Zurich/2021-09-09
- Option to translate the Lernen wie die Profis website.
- FSFE NL XMPP open for others to join
- Kees assignment for IT student
Git repo https://gitlab.com/kzpm/opensource
Investigate Univention https://www.univention.de/
- Students 16-20 years old, typically like gaming, maybe 10% have heard of Linux, most haven't.
- 2 internships, these are grade 3 students
Tobias on Chromebook with Libreboot: C201: https://libreboot.org/docs/install/c201.html
- Geert-Jan: license cost in the assignment seems high, Microsoft license cost for education seems cheap
- Geert-Jan: stange mix between Google and Microsoft. Typically schools use either of the 2.
Nico: FSFE Zurich list of possible solutions: https://lernenwiedieprofis.ch/loesungen/
- Bart: It helped to see other students or teachers running Linux as the main system, it is not just for play, it is a real solution. For technical people you can show under the hood. For general people you can show the privacy aspect that everything is under your control.
- Rijk: if you take your tech education seriously, you would learn free software.
- Felix: most big IT companies are all running Linux, the ISS and more and more companies and organizations are running Linux.
Felix: name privacy-aspects in the assignment could helpp in the motivation. Also because of the legal aspect as privacy-shield treaty is deemed unlawful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU%E2%80%93US_Privacy_Shield There are other motivations than money, you also need to comply with the law. In Germany about 2 years ago a judge invalidated that schools were forcing students to using Microsoft Cloud. Article about it: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/07/germany-threatens-to-break-up-with-microsoft-office-again/ Related Dutch legal article https://blog.iusmentis.com/2020/07/17/oke-zullen-we-gewoon-stoppen-met-de-us-cloud-want-ik-wil-niet-steeds-uitspraken-van-60-paginas-samenvatten-tot-stop-nou-eens-met-de-us-cloud/
- Felix: comparing cost is not fair: Google is able to monetize student data. Also developing free software costs money. And companies like Google and Microsoft are subsidying the educational sector. It could be a trade-off: what would more privacy cost.
- Bart: when bringing privacy as an argument to the table, be concrete. Young people aren't very sensitive to abstract, long term issues.
- Kees: perhaps make it more hands-on
- Geert-Jan on education
- Multiple initiatives
- José van Dijk en Bart Jacobs gaan wat doen
- The Good Cloud + Freedom internet
- Geert-Jan + others
- Meeting planned
- Idea to build a server with Moodle and Nextcloud
- Next step is to get funding and start a business model
- Not about writing new software, just offering a complete package with online services and computer management.
- Nico: FSFE Zurich mostly now about advocacy towards upcoming students
- Wanting to have a lobbyist in Brussels, to change the general policy.
Jos W: Univention might be interesting software https://www.univention.de/ Jos has tried to get translations to the software. Has replacement for most Microsoft-like software. Can also doe Active Directory.
- Contact: Nico Gulden
- Multiple initiatives
- Geert-Jan on open source in Delft
- Looks like it has the majority, but it doesn't yet been on the agenda
- Bart: DigiD SMS auth phase-out
- With SMS being phased out, only via the App, which is only on Google Play Store or on iOS.
- Rijk: Kevin has sent a personal letter to the committe of digital rights.
- Nico: has been contact with Bits of Freedom and Freedom internet.
- Bart: it is not a technical issue, it is a choice not to do it.
- Rijk: Motion by SP
- Staatssecretaris Knops wil DigiD moeilijker maken door de vertrouwde sms-authenticatie uit te faseren. In de toekomst moet iedereen gaan werken met een smartphone "app". Vele ouderen worden hiervan de dupe. Ze worden verplicht een smartphone aan te schaffen en dreigen te verdwalen in een digitaal doolhof. Maar ook de vele mensen, die om privacy redenen überhaupt geen apps willen gebruiken op Big-Tech platforms, worden gedupeerd. Als SP Almere vinden wij dat iedereen recht heeft op een veilige en laagdrempelige DigiD oplossing. DigiD is dé sleutel om toegang te krijgen tot levensbepalende overheidsdiensten. Uitsluiting van die diensten door het opwerpen van digitale drempels mag niet gebeuren. We roepen de regering op om een veilige en laagdrempelige DigiD authenticatie te realiseren zodat geen enkele burger wordt buitengesloten. Onze oproep is als "Motie Open DigiD Authenticatie" in een PDF bestand bijgevoegd. We willen hiermee een voorzet geven aan de Tweede Kamerfractie om actie te ondernemen om laagdrempelige toegang tot publieke digitale diensten veilig te stellen.
- Bart: also professors on unversities are on the same page.
- Bart: also allow TOTP apps or similar.
- Rijk: it is a matter of digital sovereignty.
- Bart: What can anybody do?
- Felix: Opportunity for FOI request? Might not work if it is proprietary. You should be able to follow through when doing it.
- Felix: Covid app also wasn't achieved politically, only technically after the fact.
Nico: you can always send a letter, based on the letter by Kevin: https://community.freedom.nl/uploads/short-url/wrobnBAW28vGeeq54bXpOYUYI7f.odt via https://community.freedom.nl/t/overheidsbeleid-authenticatie-digid-uitsluiting-door-toepassing-big-tech/2116/44
- Geert-Jan: TOTP keys can be extracted, so might not be secure enough
- Nico: Higher levels rely on NFC chip in ID-card.
- Felix: NFC readout is only available for Windows, Mac, iOS and Google app at the moment. It is not clear how the app is built.
- Felix: Also, in accordance with the government policy, it should have open standards.
- Felix: There should in the end be a open standard solution
- Rijk: you can reach out via your own political party
Felix: early implementation digid app online https://github.com/jorisvr/digilyzer
- Felix: Digid seems based on open soruce e-select, of which information is documention on Joinup.
- Daniel: FOI request dental X-ray software UVA
- Court session would have been 5th of October, but will be postponed
- Daniel: new government initiative for sharing patient data
Feedback from dental society KNMT https://www.knmt.nl/home-page
- Current idea of local servers (LSP's)
- It is a concept, where all involved parties have to expose their systems to a messaging system.
- Trying not to get locked in into a couple of software vendors, mostly cloud oriented.
Daniel: Counter-idea: text (notes and medical notes e.g. via Edifact). Images: https://www.orthanc-server.com/
Jos W: OpenEHR https://openehr.org/
NL community, somebody from eurotransplant https://discourse.openehr.org/c/openehr-affiliates/openehr-netherlands/12
Youtube recordings of event https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAelKkDhJFgMTejRZty8YYQ
Better https://www.better.care/ is a large European party, that is based on OpenEHR with services around it
- More about research data
- Might be pushed by a European directive.
- Rijk: there is work with politicians when government speaks open source but doesn't act.
- Kees: comparison with open source team for covid app.
Talamus: webservice, mostly oriented towards GNU Health https://talamushealth.com/
- Geert-Jan meeting educational software 1 October
- Updates will come after
- Felix: covid app
- Worked on Covid QR-code app, was using Google QR-code library, Felix reworked it.
Images were not open source, was requested, but got delayed. Finally released it without images on F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/nl.rijksoverheid.ctr.holder/ and https://f-droid.org/en/packages/nl.rijksoverheid.ctr.verifier/
- Dirk-Willem van Gulik was involved with the EUPL license.
- German press message eventually ended up in the papers.
- Rijk: format 1 press message, and then send it to many press agencies, e.g. Computable, Tweakers, Joost Schellevis (NOS).
- Geert-Jan: others are willing to help expand a short message.
- Felix: perhaps reach out to FD author.
- Rijk: discussion next meeting about communication.
Nico: rewording of https://fsfe.org/news/2021/news-20210830-01.en.html and add Codefor NL.
- Felix: F-Droid to commons conservancy
Can be an organization to be structured with https://commonsconservancy.org/
Not discussed, perhaps next meeting
Previous meeting: Events/Netherlands/2021-08-18
Next meeting: Events/Netherlands/2021-10-20
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